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I'd really like to see the response of drone-strike supporters if we tried taking out the dangerous criminals in their cities with remote-controlled aerial bombings. 'Cause I don't think that would play well in most 'hoods.  


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Originally posted to Comics on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 06:50 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  As long as they keep to 30 casualties or less (25+ / 0-)

    then there's nothing to see here.  Move along.

    And then when the next crop repays us, we'll wonder why they hate us for our freedoms.

    Off the fiscal cliff to the waiting jagged slivers of impending fiscal impalement. Out of the fiscal minefield and into the boiling pools of toxic fiscal sludge. -- (taken from The Hyperbolic Chamber: A Republican Primer for Moronmongering)

    by Rich N Mdriems on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:02:16 AM PST

  •  Oops! Sorry `bout that, Chief! n/t (13+ / 0-)

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:02:48 AM PST

  •  Killing EMTs and firemen (26+ / 0-)

    There is a fair amount of (well-deserved) outrage over the gunman that set his house on fire, and then shot and killed two firemen who answered the 911 call.

    Meanwhile, over in Pakistan and Yemen, it is the expressed policy of our government to bomb a civilian house in hopes of killing a terrorist, and then bomb the same house 15 minutes later to kill all the terrorist EMTs and fire-fighters who come in response to the emergency.  Because our president claims that anyone living in a house (including kids) where our bombs are falling is by definition a terrorist, and anyone going to the aid of any terrorist must be a supporter of terrorism.

    In Pakistan and Yemen, police, fire-fighters and EMTs are all now considered terrorists.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:02:49 AM PST

    •  yeah no (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Isaacsdad, nearzoltan, sviscusi, Lawrence

      We have NO POLICY of randomly blowing up homes to get lucky and kill a terrorist.  We have no policy of targeting first responders.  And we have no policy of saying you can kill children if they live at the wrong address.

      Just because you are making us stuff to support a "left" position doesnt mean you are not making stuff up.

      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

      by ksuwildkat on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 08:45:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You have become too fond of war (10+ / 0-)

        You are correct that the US has no policy of "randomly blowing up homes to get lucky and kill a terrorost".

        That said, the president has said publicly that he will bomb buildings, both military and civilian, in whcih he thinks there is a terrorist, and anyone else living in such a building must either be a terrorist or a supporter of terrorist, and should be targeted as are terrorists.

        As well, it is the admitted tactic of the US military to bomb buildings, both military and civilian, in which the military thinks there is a terrorist, and follow-up with a repeat bombing at the same location 10-15 minutes later to get all the police, fire-fighters and EMTs that respond to try and help the wounded and dying.  These "double-tap" bombing are important in the war on terrorism because, acording to the US military, anyone coming to the aid of any terrorists (now defined by our president as anyone living in a building that is being bombed) must themselves be either terrorists or supporters of terrorists.

        From your defense of this indefensible tactic of targeting children who live in buildings,  police, fire-fighters and EMTs, it appears you have ignored the warnings of Robert E. Lee and have become too fond of war.  Huzzah!

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 09:12:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Fantasy (0+ / 0-)

          You live in a fantasy world if you think anywhere in the Afghanistan/Pakistan border region has police let alone fire and EMTs.  The only people who show the friends/family of the occupants.

          Good god get out of the US once in a while and find out how the rest of the world lives.

          It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

          by ksuwildkat on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 02:23:03 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You sound pretty angry in this thread (0+ / 0-)

            Why are you taking this all so personally, and insulting people you don't even know?

            •  Yes Im angry (0+ / 0-)

              If I wanted to read wild conspiracy theories I would head over to Free Republic.  If I wanted to listen to an uninformed and simplistic view of the world. I would hang out at a high school.  And if I wanted to read fantasy I would pick up a book.

              We mock Republicans for refusing to live a reality based existence and then front page idiocy like this.  Worse people pile on to the idiocy like with "double tap" and "killing children" presented as fact.

              We are better than this.

              It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

              by ksuwildkat on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 09:21:35 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sounds like you are pesonally invested (0+ / 0-)

                This is obviously a sore spot for you. Honestly, people have some legitimate issues with the use of drones. Simply calling them idiots is not going to do much to change their minds. Cold, hard facts might help, but insults rarely do.

      •  If we have no policy (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BYw, zinger99, cai

        of doing double tap drone strikes then why has it happened so often?


        "Justice is a commodity"

        by joanneleon on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 03:23:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  An officer in the US military (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        zinger99, lotlizard, cai

        recently admitted that the US does have a policy of targeting children.  It was an article in the Military Times and they said that some children are targeted if they are believed to be aiding insurgents.  


        "Justice is a commodity"

        by joanneleon on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 03:24:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Strange, isn't it, (27+ / 0-)

    that random killing of strangers produces such outrage when it's done by individuals "at home" and so little outrage when it's done by "the government" to "them" . . .

    Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

    by Deward Hastings on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:04:04 AM PST

  •  What I learned from this comic today: (13+ / 0-)

    1. Afghanistan and the US have similar-enough societal, institutional, and infrastructure elements that make comparing 'policing' the two the least bit reasonable.

    2. Dronestrikes are different and worse than airstrikes because Terminator I & II.

    3. Jen Sorensen can draw a man in his underwear pretty detailed even though it's a very small image.

    The Mayans knew about Chained CPI!!!!

    by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:06:25 AM PST

  •  It's starting in NYC, probably (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, Dirtandiron, zinger99

    through one of those joint NYPD-CIA programs we've been hearing so much about . . . .

    link

  •  Don't worry (4+ / 0-)

    This will be coming to Cincinnati soon enough. By then people will be so desperate to get their daily ration of bread and the security state will be so impermeable, all we'll hear is how we should be grateful.

    Guangho, feeling particularly cheerful this morning.

  •  Well, that's where this is headed (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, annieli, happymisanthropy, cai

    probably.

  •  The right to keep and bear drones (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli

    is not much different that the right to keep and bear semi automatic assault rifles with high capacity ammunition clips filled with high velocity bullets.

    To the paranoid literal legalistic mindset, arms are arms.

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't

    by crystal eyes on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:16:02 AM PST

  •  It's rather remarkable what the US government (6+ / 0-)

    inflicts upon others but forbids of others. There are terrorists living in the US that other governments would like to kill or capture.

    Slow thinkers - keep right

    by Dave the Wave on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:17:11 AM PST

  •  Don't forget the double tap (5+ / 0-)

    Very often, a strike is done the drone is circled around and another round is placed which often incurs casualties of family, friends, and responders.

    Those are the JC Penny killings the comic alludes to. A more accurate depiction would be to strike the target, your neighbors come out to help and then another strike happens which kills your neighbors and friends.

    Thankfully there are less uses of the older hellfire missles which have a payload with a kill radius of 100 yards and more increasingly uses of a smaller payloads.

    I don't agree with the drone program, like literally at all, but at least steps are being taken to mitigate unintended deaths.

    Lockheed also is spearheading a dialed war head, meaning the payload delivered can be determined in advance. The technology supposedly should allow drone warheads to deliver a thermobaric charge which would only have a kill radius the size of a livingroom.

    Less uses of the older warheads also means less uses of those warheads guided with older guidance systems.

    Like I said, I am 100% apposed to the drone program, but steps are being taken at least.

    --Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson--

    by idbecrazyif on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:17:26 AM PST

  •  That cartoon? (9+ / 0-)

    excellent but closer to the truth than people may realize. The biggest untold story of the last few years is the intense lobbying that has gone into making that scenario a possibility.

  •  Because To Many Americans (13+ / 0-)

    The lives of "those people" mean shit to them. And I don't even mean the classical racist attitude that somehow Americans are born more human than they are. This has to do with the delusional tough guy attitude. I'm sure there are a good amount of Americans who do see things as some level of pragmatic and say to themselves, "Well, I know it's bad but we just have to do this for the good of all". The collateral damage is fine as long as it's over there and not over here.

    Many of the people who support the drone strikes are underneath-it-all garden variety bullies and abusive personalities. They justify killing people by saying, "See what you made me do to you?"

    This head movie makes my eyes rain.

    by The Lone Apple on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:49:44 AM PST

    •  Does this mean ... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Lone Apple, zinger99

      ... that our nation's leader is a garden variety bully with an abusive personality?

      •  It Means... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, wu ming, zinger99, lotlizard, cai

        That it's too easy to blow people up once the genie has been let out of the bag. It would take a very gutsy leader to do otherwise and in the current environment there are none.

        But there is a problem when a sizable number of your population shrugs and says, "Fuck 'em", whenever a drone strike kills innocent people.

        This head movie makes my eyes rain.

        by The Lone Apple on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 10:44:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Genies should be stored in bottles, not bags (0+ / 0-)

          Bags aren't environmentally friendly.

          It's true that drone strikes, or drone-guided strikes from manned aircraft, have killed innocents.  It's equally true that incidental deaths have declined as a result of increasing use of technology such as drones.  If we have to kill people (which we do in war), it's far better to take out one home harboring enemies and a few innocent people, than take out an entire city block, as used to be the practice.  

  •  Aren't drones already (4+ / 0-)

    patrolling the border?

    "Onward through the fog!" - Oat Willie

    by rocksout on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 08:03:40 AM PST

  •  Didn't police in Philadepphia try that (4+ / 0-)

    several years ago and burn down an entire city block?

    It's been a while. I may have the city wrong. But it really is about controlling those 'others.'  

    The US Supreme Court has by its actions and rhetoric has ceased to be legitimate. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

    by Rick B on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 08:11:49 AM PST

  •  Indiscriminant drone strikes are wrong, but (4+ / 0-)

    I think some of the people who cried about Anwar al-Awlaki had this precisely backwards. He was not killed by blowing up a shopping mall in Cincinnati. He was killed when a group of fairly senior terrorists was hit. However, the argument that was used then was not about collateral damage, though he may or may not have been the only target of the attack. But, since he was a US citizen (by birth), who just happened to be an Al Qaeda regional commander, who just happened to live at a terrorist compound, Obama committed "extra-judicial murder" by authorizing the strike, because we failed to kidnap him from a foreign country and bring him to the US for trial. If you live in a terrorist compound, recruit terrorists--including some of the 9/11 hijackers, and more recently, the underwear bomber--and encourage people to engage in violent jihad, then you're a terrorist. He had already been tried in abstentia in Yemen, and ordered captured dead or alive. So, just because I have liberal views and believe in civil rights doesn't mean I have to be an idiot and think there is never a justification to target some people who are actively engaging in plots to kill people, and have eluded every other method to capture them.  

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 08:18:47 AM PST

    •  Indiscrimiante? (0+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      Hidden by:
      GoGoGoEverton

      You don't know a damn thing about them, or how they work do you? Admit it, then STFU, or do some research.

      •  I just gave you a bunch of facts, which shows I (0+ / 0-)

        did my research and know what I'm talking about. You didn't argue with my facts. You just attacked and insulted me. So, go do some research yourself.

        Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

        by tekno2600 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 08:36:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Read carefully (0+ / 0-)

        I think you guys are in violent agreement.

        Indiscriminate killing IS wrong but drone strikes are pretty much the antithesis of indiscriminate.  They are as precise as current technology allows (short of face to face killing - see Bin Laden).

        Do some go wrong?  Yes.  But compared to removing a city block or even a city (see Hiroshima and Dresden) they are laser scalpels.

        If you are a bad person living in a bad place doing bad things bad stuff happens to you AND the people who choose to hang around with you.

        It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

        by ksuwildkat on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 08:51:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks. But, I don't think that when Charly said (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lawrence, Kevskos

          I didn't know anything and told me to STFU that he was agreeing with me. I'm not sure what it was he objected to, because I think I got the facts right.

          I agree with you, however, that drone strikes are generally not as indiscriminate as some people believe. However, sometimes mistakes do happen and sometimes things are done in an overly broad way.

          But, I think people also have to remember that there is a difference between an attack on an armed compound in a tribal area of Waziristan and the suburbs of Cincinnati. If you live right next door to an Al Qaeda compound, you are probably aware that an unusual amount of 50 caliber machine guns and rocket launchers go in and out of the house. It's not like you're just some dude who works in Accounting and coaches the kids soccer team.

          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

          by tekno2600 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 09:02:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Let's follow that logic (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wonmug

          There are bad people people living in the good old USA. Some have been elected or even selected to public office. Some have not. These people do bad things. Some of these things are legal. Some are not.

          If the places that bad Afghans hang out are seemingly by your definition, bad places; then the places that bad US citizens hang out are ipso facto bad places.

          Therefore anyone who hangs out with these folks or comes to their assistance gets what's coming to them.

          Is that about right?

          A proud member of the Professional Left since 1967.

          by slatsg on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:38:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  HR'd for gross misspelling of 'indiscriminate.'. (0+ / 0-)

        I suppose telling someone directly to STFU that's not an obvious troll, or attacking you directly, is also HR'able.

        The Mayans knew about Chained CPI!!!!

        by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 09:53:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Some spelling is criminally bad, though I tend to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GoGoGoEverton

          cut people some slack on that, especially considering the iPhone's legendary auto-mispelling features. But, I guess if I run into serious orthographic offenders in the future, I will refer them to you so you can throw the dictionary at them, so to speak.

          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

          by tekno2600 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 11:33:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  How many kids did FDR murder (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Larsstephens

            via absolutely indiscriminate bombing of purely civilian targets with the expressed intent of killing as many people as possible?

            Do you know? Or do you just not care?

            When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

            by PhillyJeff on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 04:29:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I didn't say anything remotely like what you are (0+ / 0-)

              saying. I said that if there was indiscriminate use of drones, such as ones that have hit wedding parties, then that is wrong. If it was an accident, that is one thing. If it was done under the assumption that everyone there was a terrorist or an accomplice of a terrorist, then that is wrong. I would differentiate, however, if a terrorist camp or compound was hit. While some on the Left have said we have no proof everyone there was a terrorist unless we bring them all to America for a trial, I think the Bonnie & Clyde rule applies there: If you live with and associate with crazy killers on a daily basis, you can't then claim to be an innocent bystander when the police arrive. But, I have no trouble admitting that we sometimes make mistakes and we sometimes hit targets in a much wider area that just where the terrorists are located.

              I also think it's a little unfair to criticize FDR for civilian deaths during World War II. First, he didn't start the war. Second, airpower at the time could not do much else besides hit big targets like cities. It would have been suicidal to say that the Germans could bomb Britain into rubble, but the Allies were going to be too morally superior to do the same to their cities. Events over six decades ago have to be judged in the context of the massive life or death struggles people faced at the time.

              Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

              by tekno2600 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 06:38:39 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  I do not know, whether you realized that (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tekno2600, ksuwildkat, GoGoGoEverton

    rules are different for acting within your territory (police action) and without (military action). There is a reason for that. Within its territory the state/nation guarantees the order. That is pretty much the reason for accepting a state and its forces. If the order breaks down, it is called civil war. Outside your territory you have neither the right nor the task nor the possiilities to keep order the way you do within.

    He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

    by Sophie Amrain on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 08:24:31 AM PST

  •  Soldiers are not COPS!! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tekno2600, Not A Bot, Isaacsdad, Lawrence

    If you send an Army to a country, dont be surprised if they kill people and break stuff.

    WE ARE NOT POLICE!!!

    Police officers are trained to use deadly forces as a last resort.  Soldiers are trained to use deadly force FIRST because we are already supposed to have gotten to LAST RESORT.

    Police are trained to use the least amount of force possible.  Soldiers are trained to use the maximum amount of force available.

    Police impose the will of the people on themselves.  Soldiers impose the will of an external power on the people.

    Two different missions.  Two different paths to success.  

    You draw a false equivalence and display complete ignorance of what soldiers do.

    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    by ksuwildkat on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 08:34:57 AM PST

    •  I am aware (10+ / 0-)

      that the rules of war are different from the rules of domestic policing. The point of this cartoon is to provide a thought exercise about how we might feel living under the constant existential threat of death from above.

      Employing drone strikes (or airstrikes of any kind) to take out a few suspected militants -- especially in populated areas -- is using excessive force. It's both cruel and dehumanizing to the Afghan people, and counterproductive strategically.

      •  How do you know that it is "cruel and (0+ / 0-)

        dehumanizing to the Afghan people"?

        The bulk of non-military airstrikes take place in Pakistan....

        you may not be aware of this, but Pakistan is not exactly popular in Afghanistan.  In fact, it may well be the least popular country/govt. to Afghans.

        And there are good, historical and current reasons for that attitude being prevalent amongst Afghans.

        I doubt that the vast majority of Afghans are losing even one iota of sleep over drone strikes in Pakistan.

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:05:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Where to start (0+ / 0-)

        First - Having been in Afghanistan and having actual real live Afghani friends, I can tell you that the majority of Afghanis have one issue with drones - they dont do enough.  Every day Afghans who live in the border region are killed not by drones but by artillery FROM PAKISTAN.  Every day.  This is a DAILY subject in Kabul because just about everyone in Kabul has a "family member" in the areas impacted.  Just because we don't think of a third cousin on your wife's side to be family doesn't mean they don't.  Within minutes it seemed like ever phone got a text message from a friend either saying they were fine or informing who was dead.  Every time I would get the same look and question "Why wont you stop this?  Why don't you destroy these people?  Why cant you control Pakistan?"

        Second - the targeting process is egregiously long in order to reduce the likelihood of hitting the wrong guy.  Any thought that we do not exercise extreme care is wrong.  Yet mistakes happen.  That is a fact in life that is not waived for war.

        Third - the idea that the answer is to just not do anything is naive.  These are not people with a mild dislike for the US.  You don't "earn" a JDAM or Hellfire for being anti US.  You get on the drone hit list by actively killing or seeking to kill Americans.  

        We use drones BECAUSE they are discriminate.  We use them BECAUSE we can wait for people to leave so only the bad person gets dead.  We use them BECAUSE the alternative is artillery or dumb bombs.

        I am not a fan of the Global War on Terror because I think the vast majority of it is a police function and soldiers don't make good cops.  But I am also not a fan of letting people sit safely in ungoverned spaces so they can train and organize to harm my country.  Would it be better of Pakistan joined the responsible adult world and fixed this problem with arrests?  Yes.  Is that going to happen in the next 1500 years?  No.

        In the spectrum of good any war is far at the end of the scale.  But if I can prevent harm to my country using technology that allows me to not place soldiers lives at risk I am all for that.  And If I can use something that has a close to 80% success rate (success being killing JUST the bad guy we are targeting) then while the remaining 20% is regretful is is in fact acceptable.  The alternative of returning to systems with success rates (same criteria) that approach zero is unacceptable.

        It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

        by ksuwildkat on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 02:55:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  the wrong mission is still the wrong mission. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      States' rights? Corporate rights? Militia rights? Government rights? Hell no! Only individuals have rights. Proud lifelong human supremacist.

      by happymisanthropy on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 10:41:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  BS (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ksuwildkat

    This cartoon is BS it placates the ones among us that WANT to find a problem, even where none actually exists.

  •  We're talking about a battlefield here. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lawrence

    Of course this would be unacceptable for domestic action, where suspects are afforded a whole gamut of due process and rightfully so.  It is disingenuous to compare fighting a war to fighting crime.  Besides if the alternative is carpetbombing a place into oblivion with a lot of collateral damage and innocent lives lost, I'll take drone strikes any day.

    •  Please see my earlier comment (5+ / 0-)

      Just a couple above this one. The alternative isn't carpet bombing; it's not bombing at all.

      •  If drones are out (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lawrence

        And conventional bombing is out, what is acceptable to those who oppose drones?  What specifically would you politically support (that would achieve the same result with acceptable precision)?

        •  Consider the context (6+ / 0-)

          We're not exactly in a struggle for survival against Hitler here. I'm saying that using overwhelming and massacre-prone air power against ragtag gangs of militants is not only unnecessary, but will create more militants due to all the inevitable civilian deaths. We would despise any country that bombed our shopping malls in an effort to kill a few bad guys. In terms of what I can support, I was fine with the SEALs' operation against bin Laden.

          •  Has the potential danger lessened that much? (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not confident in thinking they're just a ragtag gang or that they will stay that way without vigilance on our part.  An effective organization takes leadership, and they are currently far less of a factor than they once were precisely because such a consistent concerted effort has been made to wipe out as many of their leaders as possible.

            As for whether efforts to kill them actually create more militants, I'm not convinced.  It seems more of them are created out of political convenience by factions or even governmental elements who stir up large numbers with incredibly exaggerated propaganda for their own purposes.  Our situation seems closer to damned if you do and damned if you don't.  I just don't think the problem will lessen if we back off - the motivations of those who inflame potential militants will remain.  Obama has been far smarter with regard to how to conduct these things than was Bush, and I tend to trust his handle on the delicate balance between negative public reaction and effectiveness.   At some point I think most people do understand who they are targeting and why.  

          •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

            We are not in a struggle for survival so drones are EXACTLY what we need to use.  Drones are the alternative to total war.  They are the alternative to dropping thousands of bombs to remove grid squares.  They are the alternative to using nukes to destroy societies.

            Nice of you to support sending SEALs but they cost a bunch more than drones do.  Do you also support the increased costs associated with training enough special operations types?

            As other countries bombing us, dont forget that the ONLY reason we are doing so is because Pakistan REFUSES to act against these people.  We can stop today if Pakistan steps up and does what a responsible government is supposed to do.  The closest this country has ever come to harboring and supporting those that attack others is when we allowed IRA fundraising and even that was hotly debated.

            It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

            by ksuwildkat on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 03:10:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  That is false (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              slatsg

              we  (the USA) have harbored and supported people who attacked other countries  E.g. Cuba. The School of the Americas trained terrorists and torturers for decades, responsible for mass murders in many Latin American countries.

            •  You have to be kidding (0+ / 0-)

              You need to read a bit about US involvement in Latin America. Not only did we support those who attacked sovereign countries, but our government was often funding, training, and providing logistical support.

              It would be easier to list the Latin American countries where we  haven't harbored and supported clandestine and overt attacks than the ones we have done so.

              A proud member of the Professional Left since 1967.

              by slatsg on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:55:55 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  I suppose (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nearzoltan, Lawrence, ksuwildkat

    If our cops had to dodge IEDs and automatic gunfire to go about their daily tasks, the rules here might be a little different. As it is, I only see two alternatives to drone use: 1) don't conduct any action against the type of enemy that shoots schoolgirls in the face for going to school, or 2) send people like my brother and his armed forces buddies door to door and hope they don't get killed while acting like cops. I'll take the drones, thank you.

  •  coming soon to your village (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wu ming, cai, AllisonInSeattle

    In a recent  investigative report by the Center for Responsive Politics and Hearst newspapers, the authors expressed concern that drones were being pushed into the domestic market before safety and ethics issues had been sufficiently addressed. Such fears were confirmed this week when the first police department in the country to acquire an aerial drone crashed the $300,000 aircraft into its own SWAT team.

    The Montgomery County sheriff’s office in Texas had planned a big photo opportunity with their newly acquired surveillance drone. It all went horrible wrong when, according to the Examiner, “[The] prototype drone was flying about 18 feet off the ground [and] it lost contact with the controller’s console on the ground. It’s designed to go into an auto shutdown mode … but when it was coming down, the drone crashed into the SWAT team’s armored vehicle.” (The SWAT team had suited up, armored vehicle on hand, for the purpose of the photo.)

    “Not only did the drone fail, and not only did it crash,  it literally crashed into the police. It’s no wonder we’re not able to find a video of this spectacular publicity failure,”  noted Gizmodo.

    No one was injured but the incident nonetheless highlights concerns about the domestic proliferation of drone technology. The CRP–Hearst report explicitly listed collisions as a concern insufficiently addressed by lawmakers in the so-called “drone caucus,” who have pushed an agenda to hurry drones into the hands of police departments and private corporations.

    yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

    by annieli on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 10:48:16 AM PST

  •  Jen - you forgot to 'double tap' the first respond (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wu ming, tiggers thotful spot, cai

    responders and mourners - because obviously anyone coming to the aid of a terrorist is also a mourner fireman Good Samaritan son/daughter/husband/wife terrorist too.

    Reforms come from below. No man with four aces howls for a new deal.
    Keystone XL will raise gas prices!

    by Turbonerd on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 12:43:41 PM PST

  •  The problem with your analogy is that our (0+ / 0-)

    first responders in the U.S. generally aren't facing organized, fascist-like organizations armed with rocket launchers, mortars, rpg's, and boatloads of ied's.  They're also not facing brainwashed boys who explode themselves and everyone around them with suicide vests.

    Furthermore, most of the areas where drone strikes are launched are areas where virtually no effective law enforcement exists.

    I'm not sure that I agree with the whole idea of drone strikes in Yemen at this time, but in the tribal areas of Pakistan that border on Afghanistan they probably are a necessity at this time, imo.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:13:42 PM PST

  •  US voters and the Democrats have been McNamara'ed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tiggers thotful spot, cai

    … yet again in my lifetime, judging by the comments.

    Just keep cheering war and your countrymen who make it, folks. It's all good. </s>

    The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war.

    by lotlizard on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 05:16:46 PM PST

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