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As soon as word broke of the shootings in Connecticut, the familiar cries not to "politicize" the tragedy ensued. I find this plea curious on a number of levels. First of all, the people urging others not to "politicize" gun violence seem to come from a particular political perspective with remarkable consistency. You might even say their request is a political statement itself. It's almost like they think gun control advocacy comes from some random whim wholly detached from incidents such as this. But the ready availability of AR-15s does not happen in a vacuum.

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Originally posted to Comics on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 06:50 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The more readily available weapons are (10+ / 0-)

    the more important it becomes to have free mental health care available to everyone.

    Which means the government has to do it, and taxes have to pay for it.

    Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

    by blue aardvark on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 06:56:35 AM PST

    •  SIDE TOPIC: I can say for sure (7+ / 0-)

      that the 'privatization of mental health' at least here in Georgia, has been a stunning failure.

      When I worked for the COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH service, we were a TEACHING PROGRAM for medical students, and we had a residency training program for Morehouse School of Medicine.

      We did awesome, top-notch work, and we were held to very strict ethical standards.

      privatization tossed ALL of that out the window and opened the field up to 10000 half-assed douchebag dimwits to start businesses ripping off Medicaid.

      it's time to take it way from the private idiots and return it to the country level with standards and expectations and such.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:20:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That would be wonderful, but under (0+ / 0-)

        Deal's leadership, I think we can only look for more of the same. Dems have atrophied to a point that we are nearly voiceless with a few courageous exceptions.

        "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

        by Lily O Lady on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 10:01:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  The deadlier the weapon or tool, (4+ / 0-)

      then the tighter the controls have to be on access.

      We don't sell dynamite at the 7/11.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:13:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  That's it too! (7+ / 0-)

    Put guns in the hands of everyone, even teachers, but don't support affordable healthcare, which would include mental health care.

    That is just beyond stupid.

    Everyone doesn't need a gun.
    But We owe it to our citizens to provide affordable healthcare, and that includes mental health screenings, and treatment, not only for their safety but in some cases for ours.

  •  Excellent cartoon and point made n/t (3+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    alkatt, boilerman10, Miggles
    Hidden by:
    maybeeso in michigan

    Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

    by absdoggy on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:03:33 AM PST

  •  Respect for the Deadly, speaking of (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandracarolina, boilerman10

    Robert Bork has died.

    "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

    by SueDe on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:04:25 AM PST

  •  I love "well regulated" being crossed out. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg, drklassen

    It proves that the people who shriek "SECOND AMENDMENT," including those assholes at the National Review, have no idea what they're talking about.

    The scene on November 6, midnight: Barack Obama holds up newspaper reading "Romney defeats Obama" as he heads to give his second term acceptance speech.

    by alkatt on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:08:29 AM PST

    •  The argument (with some backing) seems to be that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      twigg, alkatt

      "well-regulated" meant that the militia would be kept up and well-supplied in the original sense. My counterargument is that we have -very- frequently expanded law on the basis of what a reasonable person would interpret from reading that law in a modern context. A shocking amount of our rape law, for example (sorry to bring up such an ugly subject) is incredibly outdated and often explicitly requires force. This goes against the conscience for a lot of things like being drugged - so courts unilaterally found ways to stretch or outright spin wholecloth new law, as necessary, to keep the offenders from going free.

      In fact, the entire adversarial and common law systems are derived chiefly from judges being activist. The originalist position is a suspiciously convenient one in this light. We've made great efforts to have the legislature much more proactively involved in writing better law before the judges need to start, but when you have a law as ridiculously difficult to amend as the U.S. Constitution is, judges -must- take a more active role that reflects society.

      It is a principle upon which the entire notion of the judiciary stands.

      •  It almost doesn't matter (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alkatt, Miggles, drklassen

        what we think it might have meant, and I don't question your view.

        All that matters is what the current SCOTUS thinks it means, unless and until we have a case go forward that could challenge it.

        Governments, even in normal business enact laws that may, or may not be constitutional. They have to do this because they are not Justices of the Supreme Court, so they can not "know".

        There is NOTHING to stop this government passing any law it chooses to pass, and it will remain the law until a ruling is made.

        I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
        but I fear we will remain Democrats.

        by twigg on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:20:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  We aren't talking about legislation here (0+ / 0-)

        we are talking about the Constitution as you point out. The Constitution was sold to the states as a concept which granted certain powers to the federal government. The remainder were to remain with either the individual or the states. No one questioned the right of the individual to own and bear arms. Why? How about because the federal government was not granted any power to control arms other than the power to regulate the army or militia?

        Thus, from 1789 until 1792, when the so called Bill of Rights was ratified, there was no federal power to regulate gun ownership.

        The Bill of Right was ratified as a bulwark against federal intrusion into individual and states rights. To clarify, if you will, individual and states rights. It was not designed to limit individual or state rights in any way, shape or form. The fact that states rights connected to the militia have been co-opted by the federal government has nothing to do with the individuals right to keep and bear arms. I submit that a state has no more of a right to concede my right to keep and bear arms to the federal government than it has to concede my right to free speech.

        My point here is not to deny that something has to be done. Rather, my point is that something has to be done on a constitutional level. Anything short of a constitutional amendment is bullshit.

        If you don't want to be kept in the dark and lathered with horse dung, stop acting like a mushroom.

        by nomorerepukes on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:36:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  And in it's "original sense"... (0+ / 0-)

        ...arms meant "muskets, flintlock pistols, knives, and bows & arrows".

        But Scalia, the hypocrite, ignored that aspect of pulling "original intent" out of his ass.

        And, as pointed out, he simple took the position that "everyone" is part of the militia.  Ignoring, that, no, not everyone.  In the "original sense" it would have only been white adult men.  Where adult most likely was someone in their 20's.  Again, more Scalia hypocrisy.

    •  The SCOTUS ignored the entire (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alkatt, drklassen

      clause regarding a militia, not just the "well regulated" phrase.   We have a well regulated militia in each state - it's called the National Guard.  Citizens not members of the National Guard, it seems to me, have no rights under the 2nd Amendment.  But that's just me; apparently the SCOTUS for some reason believes the clause regarding a militia can be tossed away.  The Heller decision doesn't make clear their reasoning in that regard.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:20:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Except (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happymisanthropy

        The Bill of Rights clarifies what the rights are among the federal and state governments and the individuals. It was designed to further limit the federal government and ensure state and individual rights. To suggest now that it empowers the federal government at the expense of either the states or the individual is preposterous.

        If you don't want to be kept in the dark and lathered with horse dung, stop acting like a mushroom.

        by nomorerepukes on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:45:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Where's Mental Health spending (4+ / 0-)

    in the Ryan Budget?

    Where is the money for the increased security in schools?

    When your solution is to fall back on things you adamantly mock and oppose, then you are the problem.

    Money doesn't talk it swears.

    by Coss on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:08:33 AM PST

    •  nowhere to be seen. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Coss, maybeeso in michigan

      Gov. Perry wants taxpayer money to train teachers to be like Air marshal's.

      Health care?  He'll have to clear it with his tea party committee.

      It's a disgrace!

      President Obama has won, the Senate is in Democratic hands, and America now has to recover from the bitter divide that only the Republicans wanted. Hope for today, tomorrow and the future! Let's get to it!

      by boilerman10 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:20:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well yes: (8+ / 0-)
    You might even say their request is a political statement itself.
    It is a blatant attempt to shut down a debate that might affect the status quo.

    My Dad once told me that all of life is politics. There are no debates, discussions or actions that are not political, because politics is simply a discussion about how we all live together.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    by twigg on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:08:44 AM PST

  •  On. The. Dot. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boilerman10, Lily O Lady

    Thanks!

    “If we, citizens, do not support our artists, then we sacrifice our imagination on the altar of crude reality and we end up believing in nothing and having worthless dreams.” ~ Yann Martel

    by SottoVoce on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:12:43 AM PST

  •  Why can I get an AR-15 and all the ammo I want (4+ / 0-)

    but I have to sneak around and risk ruination, jail, and possible death by cop just to have a little weed on the weekend???????????

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:15:41 AM PST

    •  good question..... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      xxdr zombiexx

      It's nuts.

      President Obama has won, the Senate is in Democratic hands, and America now has to recover from the bitter divide that only the Republicans wanted. Hope for today, tomorrow and the future! Let's get to it!

      by boilerman10 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:22:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wonder what the state of "sending a good message (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happymisanthropy

        to the children" is in.....

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:24:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Stephanie Miller just read a letter (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lily O Lady, drklassen

          from a lady addressed to Mike Huckabee, but it should be read everywhere, and in light of the massacre, I think right winger fools trying to derail sensible gun control wqith issues like god in school and the far left etc.

          why do we need AK's, and UZI's and Tech 9's or AR-15's with mega clips?

          Cripesif you can't hit the target with a carbine with New York State legal 10 shot clip you probably won't hit the target with a 100 shot drum on a thompson sub machine gun replica.

          President Obama has won, the Senate is in Democratic hands, and America now has to recover from the bitter divide that only the Republicans wanted. Hope for today, tomorrow and the future! Let's get to it!

          by boilerman10 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:34:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know. I, personally, have no desire for (0+ / 0-)

            owning anything like that. I'd like to shoot one of them once, just for shits and giggles, (I'd like to shoot a SAW and an M4) but I never think about them, dream about them, I don't feel I need 2 or 3 of them to go to the store to get my coffee.

            I don't think they will enhance my overall sense of manliness.

            I don't believe they make me any safer. My kung fu helps with that probably more because my kung fu is ALWAYS concealed. ;) Can't see it until it's on ya......

            And I have just never felt the need. I grew up in a military family, dad was a marksman in the air force (yeah, weird, but that seems to be the truth).

            I can't explain.

            All I am doing here is expressing concern tha t people think their pet ideas will save lives, and they likely will, but they are NOT going to eliminate these complex, weird tragedies and will likely provide some nurturing for a black market and organized crime.

            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

            by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 10:07:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Ultimately the point isn't hitting (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            drklassen

            a target, it's the ability to hit a number of targets. Anyone saying anything else is blowing smoke.

            "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

            by Lily O Lady on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 10:09:21 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Markmanship isn't the issue at all... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Lily O Lady, drklassen

              It's why do we need hi cap para-military versions of real mankillers loose on the streets at all?

              We don't.

              Enough said.  But as a deer hunter in my younger days, markmanship was a key desire.  It brought home the venison.

              President Obama has won, the Senate is in Democratic hands, and America now has to recover from the bitter divide that only the Republicans wanted. Hope for today, tomorrow and the future! Let's get to it!

              by boilerman10 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 06:35:26 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't think you used an (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                drklassen

                assault rifle to bring home the venison. Yet so many of my fellow Georgians are out there buying up all the assault rifles before the much feared and anticipated ban. They can't be thinking of marksmanship, only firepower.

                "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

                by Lily O Lady on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:55:10 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

  •  ptsd (0+ / 0-)

    I worry about all those soldiers coming back from Iraqastan with ptsd and guns.  Trained marksmen with anger issues and easy access to weaponry.

    Apres Bush, le deluge.

    by melvynny on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:18:40 AM PST

  •  It is not a difficult problem to stop (8+ / 0-)

    gun-driven mass killings.

    Australia got hit once in 1996. A paranoid schizophrenic, Martin Bryant, got hands on an assault rifle and killed 35 people.

    Two weeks.

    The Australian government tossed out a rational program:

    -- 600,000 weapon buy-back to remove assault rifles from homes

    -- Registration system for all gun ownership

    -- Mental health standards as part of the filter for gun ownership

    -- Serious need for a gun is nequired to get a permit. "Home defense" is not enough.

    -- Ban on private, uncontrolled gun sales

    It's been 16 years now. Test period, eh?

    Zero gun-related mass murders in Australia.

    How hard was that? They separated guns from paranoid schizophrenics and eliminated militarized weapons generally. If it takes a constitutional amendment in the U.S. to do all of it, then so be it. Do what we can now anyway.

    (Yeah, Gun Biz profits went down in Australia. XXXX 'em.)

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:19:32 AM PST

  •  lord amighty (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy

    does no one understand that "well regulated" DOES NOT mean "with heaps and heaps of regulations"?

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    that is not how the phrase was meant in the 2nd amendment.

    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

    by Cedwyn on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:30:24 AM PST

    •  And... (0+ / 0-)

      does no one understand that "arms" DOES NOT mean "anything that can be created to slaughter masses of men, women and children"?

      If you want to play that game, "arms" means muskets, flintlock pistols, knives, and bows & arrows.

  •  One of the two best (0+ / 0-)

    cartoons I'vee seen on this subject - spot on.

  •  here's what I don't understand (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drklassen

    BESIDES that lack of sympathy coming from the gun-nuts, is this:

    I'm listening to an interview two days ago, where some guy calls the AR-15 "a cool gun to have"  He says this AFTER 20 1st-graders are mowed down in their classroom.

    Then yesterday, I hear Sen. Manchin say he's a "proud gun-owner"  What, exactly, makes a gun-owner "proud" to own a gun.  So, they had $200 to soend, walked into the fucking Wal-Mart and bought one?

    SO much to be proud about.

    So, there you have it.  Guns are just toys for "grown-up" boys.

    Oh, and if these fuckers want us to believe they love their kids more than they love their guns, they're going to have to fucking prove it.


    "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous..........got me?" - Don Van Vliet

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:31:38 AM PST

  •  "Atomic bombs don't kill people... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lily O Lady, drklassen

    It interesting to note that in this gun control debate the contingent that is most in favor of guns, and more guns [arm the teachers!] is the one that would push back the most stridently if their own argument was ever used by, say, Ahmadinejad - "Atomic bombs don't kill people, people kill people...""

  •  "Punishing candidates" is more commonly refered to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy

    as 'Democracy'.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:57:51 AM PST

  •  My Facebook Status (0+ / 0-)

    A few minutes after I heard about the shooting, this was my post to Facebook:

    A Rant: To everyone who says it is not the time to talk about gun control as it might politicize a tragedy: GO FUCK YOURSELF! 18 kids are dead so you can hold on to your precious right to have a gun that holds 15+ rounds. Your paranoid delusional fear of bad guys or the government are responsible for 18 more kids. Add that to Columbine, Stockton, Tucson, VA Tech. How many more need to die. Shit like this makes me so happy I left this country. Last night an old friend asked me if I was ever coming back. Without reservation, that answer is no. Once again, "I need to have my 15 round clip and my AK to protect my freedoms" = GO FUCK YOURSELF!

    "Religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together" - James Madison

    by SierraDrinker on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:27:47 AM PST

  •  The NRA is wildly out in wingnut land (0+ / 0-)

    ...and its NRA News facebook page is living proof. Check it out, and be sure to read the comments on various news stories on using a gun to thwart crime:

    http://tinyurl.com/...

  •  Deth Panuls indied. (0+ / 0-)

    Wel dun Jen.

    God be with you, Occupiers. God IS with you.

    by Hohenzollern on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 01:51:39 PM PST

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