Sadly, it won’t be... not until I toss it in my Spin-O-Rama Cycle (at the end).
We were raised by our "Roosevelt Democrat" parents (both now deceased). Mom was a real Massachusettes Kennedy Irish Catholic (I think she’d’a loved Biden!) Of the four daughters, there’s two evangelicals, one tree-hugger-drum-circler, then me (#4). This story is about my recent conversations with #2 evangelical sister, Lady N.
Over the years, she and I have had many late night deep philosophical and therapeutic convo’s. She’s very intelligent, competent, and global (has lived in Canada, Africa & Croatia). Take my word for it. (She could run for VP!) We have kind of an understanding. When this election season came along, we seem to have had an unspoken truce. We just don’t talk about it. (and we ARE gabbers, as you will see.)
Until Friday, the day after the Veep Debate, when I received an email from her, it was copied to her 3 grown (20-something) daughters and mates also. (All xian’s as well). Some of her tone or attitude may be because she was making an effort to avoid coming off as too bossy or interfering with them, I don’t know. (One of them is a Ron Pauler.) She opened the door with this e-mail:
There were a lot of comments on all channels last night about "misrepresentations" in the Vice-Presidential debate - so weird to see the leanings of each channel (I flipped between CNN, NBC and FOX. The text message polling really showed you the bias by who watches each channnel - HUGE differences in the voting!) This article (see link below) shows goofs on both sides and appears to provide actual facts. Fred Thompson was probably the most convincing of the post-debate interviews I saw when he refuted numerous "facts" presented by Biden because he was "there" and had first hand knowledge of how McCain voted on - and campaigned for - some of the issues mentioned. Most of the interviewees were so predisposed to one candidate or the other it wasn't funny. This article covers close to an equal number of goofs for each candidate. (I didn't actually count.)
Comparing Palin's 5-6 weeks on the national stage to Biden's 30+ years in Washington is also interesting. I would have expected him to make fewer errors. Her debate tactics in some ways remind me of Obama's. i.e. taking an issue, not really answering the question and using it to zero in on an "I care about you" (the little guy on main street) type of plug. But at least she acknowledges she's doing it - some of her remarks to the effect that she wasn't going to answer the question were quite candid. Obama comes across to me as more sly and manipulative - he knows what he's doing alright but isn't up front about it.
OK - that's my political soap box for the election - here's the article:
http://elections.foxnews.com/...
I can see why the Club rules {where they lived overseas} were "no politics or religion" in the conversations at the bar ...
Have a fun day, Lady N
TWO: I replied and copied all:
Thanks, N. I applaud you for holding your tongue this long! lol.
But now that you've opened the door, as they say. HA HA HA.
Seriously, I think all of you already know that I am a very strong supporter of Barack Obama for POTUS / Joe Biden for VPOTUS.
I consider myself to being doing the best I can, in supporting Obama, by mostly keeping my mouth shut. lol. I talk way better than I type, too. Im just NOT a "policy wonk" or a facts hound type person. I do have more of a tendency to lead with my heart or intuition, then I read, research, fact-check, and discuss, and read some more. And decide.
But I admit, also, Obama pretty much had me with the 2004 DNC Speech. Then... his book. Then some more speeches, and the first book, and town halls, and interviews, and some of that.
anyway... I mostly watch MSNBC, and read the interblogles. :-) Again, I concede that MSNBC is the most left leaning of the bunch, but FOX is really... not even credible. Its really hard to find any one source that "objective" these days. (I miss Walter Cronkite). Its time consuming and... work.
Try this one:
http://www.factcheck.org/...
heres a snip from there, example of the kind of thing that gives me a headache:
"
Palin's False Tax Claims
Palin repeated a false claim about Barack Obama's tax proposal:
Palin: Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year. That's a lot of middle income average American families to increase taxes on them. I think that is the way to kill jobs and to continue to harm our economy.
Obama did not in fact vote to increase taxes on "families" making as little as $42,000 per year. What Obama actually voted for was a budget resolution that called for returning the 25 percent tax bracket to its pre-Bush tax cut level of 28 percent. That could have affected an individual with no children making as little as $42,000. But a couple would have had to earn $83,000 to be affected and a family of four at least $90,000. The resolution would not have raised taxes on its own, without additional legislation, and, as we've noted before, there is no such tax increase in Obama's tax plan. (The vote took place on March 14 of this year, not last year as Palin said.)
Palin also repeated the exaggeration that Obama voted 94 times to increase taxes. That number includes seven votes that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on corporations or affluent individuals; 23 votes that were against tax cuts; and 17 that came on just 7 different bills. She also claimed that Biden and Obama voted for "the largest tax increase in history." Palin is referring here to the Democrats' 2008 budget proposal, which would indeed have resulted in about $217 billion in higher taxes over two years. That's a significant increase. But measured as a percentage of the nation's economic output, or gross domestic product, the yardstick that most economists prefer, the 2008 budget proposal would have been the third-largest since 1968, and it's not even in the top 10 since 1940.
""""""""
anyway. I get kicks out the more funny satire stuff, really.... what can I say. <wink wink kerpow zing you betcha>
LL
A little later that day, I went ahead and sent this:
I would like to ask you guys, and I want to be as respectful as I can be in the asking, about your thoughts & opinions, and feelings... about his election. In particular, as women (or not! lol) and as evangelical Christians, what are your thoughts (overall) on Sarah Palin as the Vice Pres. Candidate?
Ill be up front with my own stance... I think she's ... uhm... let's just say "lacking".... (granting thats extremely oversimplified.) Put another way, she just doesn't have the chops.
Im not looking to debate or argue or sway anybody. I live in my own little bubble here, I dont chat around the water cooler at work, so... Im curious.
An example... this is looking more at their underlying personhood, not at issues per se...
One of the (of many) "take-aways" from the VP Debate - for me - was one bit where Biden... Ill go look for the text - the Mod asked about... something, he came back with (my paraphrase ha ha) "R.E.S.P.E.C.T." which is one of my top reasons I like these guys. Biden said, "I learned that I can question their policy but never to question their motive". I thought that spoke volumes. Palin, on the other hand, with same Q, went off and away, bounced around hitting various Talking Points, and never really answered the Q properly. (It was like she launched her Closing Argument prematurely, I thought.)
Here it is, it was at the end...
Ifill: Let's come full circle. You both want to bring both sides together. You both talk about bipartisanship. Once again, we saw what happened this week in Washington. How do you change the tone, as vice president, as number-two?
Biden: Well, again, I believe John McCain, were he here -- and this is a dangerous thing to say in the middle of an election -- but he would acknowledge what I'm about to say.
I have been able to work across the aisle on some of the most controversial issues and change my party's mind, as well as Republicans', because I learned a lesson from Mike Mansfield.
Mike Mansfield, a former leader of the Senate, said to me one day -- he -- I made a criticism of Jesse Helms. He said, "What would you do if I told you Jesse Helms and Dot Helms had adopted a child who had braces and was in real need?" I said, "I'd feel like a jerk."
He said, "Joe, understand one thing. Everyone's sent here for a reason, because there's something in them that their folks like. Don't question their motive."
I have never since that moment in my first year questioned the motive of another member of the Congress or Senate with whom I've disagreed. I've questioned their judgment.
I think that's why I have the respect I have and have been able to work as well as I've been able to have worked in the United States Senate. That's the fundamental change Barack Obama and I will be bring to this party, not questioning other people's motives.
Ifill: Governor?
Palin: You do what I did as governor, and you appoint people regardless of party affiliation, Democrats, independents, Republicans. You -- you walk the walk; you don't just talk the talk.
And even in my own family, it's a very diverse family. And we have folks of all political persuasion in there, also, so I've grown up just knowing that, you know, at the end of the day, as long as we're all working together for the greater good, it's going to be OK.
But the policies and the proposals have got to speak for themselves, also. And, again, voters on November 4th are going to have that choice to either support a ticket that supports policies that create jobs.
You do that by lowering taxes on American workers and on our businesses. And you build up infrastructure, and you rein in government spending, and you make our -- our nation energy independent.
Or you support a ticket that supports policies that will kill jobs by increasing taxes. And that's what the track record shows, is a desire to increase taxes, increase spending, a trillion-dollar spending proposal that's on the table. That's going to hurt our country, and saying no to energy independence. Clear choices on November 4th.
=======
link for entire text:
http://www.ndtv.com/...
Lady Lib
THREE : Saturday, came this next item. She replied, but only to the 3 sisters, she did not copy the youngun’s:
For starters, LL, I haven't prayed about this like you did so this is all my own limited human meanderings:
I think Biden was pretty smooth but he outright "misrepresented" at least ten facts - I saw a senator on one of the channels immediately refute these ten. (re McCain's voting record he said he was there and McCain pushed him to vote exactly opposite of what Biden claimed McCain voted.) He said an additional six Biden statements were very arguable.
I think they are all to some degree the product of their advisors and whatever they call the guys that coach them - so maybe Biden didn't realize what he was doing when he made his mistakes - but the damage is done. 50% of the people who heard his statements will believe them, regardless of their accuracy.
No one's perfect - debating is an art not a science – Palin had some errors also. And if you didn't like her personality and "style" that's what a democracy is all about. You're entitled to vote on style. I didn't like the snide little glances and mocking smiles between Biden and the moderator - I think that showed either insecurity on his part or lack of respect (but may also have been deliberately engineered to generate a "connection" with cynical viewers.) As a VP he needs to get over it - imagine something similar in touchy negotiations on the international stage. He rarely looked into the camera or at Palin which I also did not like.
You can like whatever style you like. I seriously dislike Obama's style - he is VERY manipulative when he brilliantly targets the functionally illiterate with his little sayings and zeroing in on constant reminders that he cares for the "little guys" even when totally unrelated to the original question. Obama is amazing when reading from a teleprompter or with a memorized speech but off-the cuff, he scares me.
For the record, I preferred Huckabee and sometimes Ron Paul - especially "off-the-cuff." Even if you don't agree with his policies you have to admit that Ron Paul never minces words - I guess that's part of why he lost in the primaries. i.e. Politics is a tricky game.
We are also electing a party machine and an ideology. As you well know I am a conservative but after hearing Obama at the 2004 convention was very keen to hear him speak again and was open. But that didn't last long. I think Washington needs to be stood on its head but I don't think all the Obama sayings and hype are going to do it. I am afraid he will tear it apart.
There's no such thing as unbiased news on any of the channels and most of them support Obama. I am not sure if any of them are "credible." If the media has anything to do with it, Obama will win so I am praying for him and his family and need to remind myself that God is bigger than American politics. It's a good thing we have checks and balances no matter who wins. I agree with (daughter)that it's probably more important to research everyone on your ballot who is running for Congress.
A friend of mine spent a year working in a Senate office in DC after college and left very disillusioned. He said it was next to impossible for an honest person to survive in Washington. Well, I hope for our sakes that there are a few of them. But they have to have very tough skins and have to learn how to work around the game and function in the system against very tough obstacles. That's why McCain and Palin both appeal to me - they aren't afraid to buck the entrenched powers that be - and have DONE it - not just talked about it. I'm sure McCain has played some games but at least he is able to step out of the line-up and make a stand when he decides its necessary. He may strike out sometimes instead of hitting a homer but at least he sticks his neck out.
I have serious issues with socialism and letting bureaucrats run our health care system. It needs an overhaul, no question. But although there were some very good things about Canada's health care that I wish we had here, their political system is so different from ours that using Canada as an example is comparing apples and oranges.
I also have serious issues with the Liberal voting records of both Obama and Biden. Obama is as far left as it gets and I don't think that's a good foundation for leading bi-partisan solutions to our problems.
Compare the fact that Biden's been on the national stage for 30+ years with the fact that Palin's been doing it for a matter of weeks. With that in mind he could have done a lot better and she was amazing. It reminded me a lot of Nathan's high school debates - he'd actually make a great politician if he could stomach what goes with it. I think it was a plus that she clearly did not answer some of the questions directly - but she openly admitted it. She was making the most of what she had to work with. And I think her lack of Washington experience is not a serious problem - she's a very quick study. I think if McCain loses, the GOP needs to get her in the Congress a.s.a.p. (I didn't see the edited Couric interviews but know full well what one can do with editing - there have been some other incredibly deceptive edit jobs telling only half the statement for deliberately misleading the audience and I'm losing interest fast in seeing any of them.)
Although I don't agree with some of their ideals individually, I think Hillary, Ron Paul and Huckabee are much more direct and have expressed clear ideas - maybe it's just as well they will all continue on in Congress.
I also think our system is part of the problem. Coalition governments in some countries should be looked at - with more power to third parties - it's sort of like forced cooperation. Ours just fosters the ongoing culture war/ideology war. And no one wins.
Well - I have other things to do on a Saturday morning so don't expect a lot more from me.
You asked.
Love to all, Lady N
Sigh.
So. I’m beginning to wonder, really. Is this a Jesus thing? What would Jesus do.... Evade the question?? Who DOES she support?
I had to remind myself of my previous Biden remark about ‘questioning their motive’. Plus, she is my sister. I love her. So I then wrote this: FOUR; me on Saturday
N, thank you for taking the time out of your Saturday morning and for your thoughtful response.
A couple quick comments. (1) I didnt view the Couric interviews either, for sort of similiar reasons ha ha.
then (2) more important... the aspect I am praying about with this is: for open and respectful communication with my loved ones; where we can agree to disagree and just "drop it" on some things; and if there are some "closed doors" in some areas, let us at least open up some windows and let some air in here! lol, while keeping hearts and heads; and keeping in mind that, basically, essentially, we harbor similiar hopes and dreams and desires for ourselves and our country, i.e. good health, "wealth" (prosperity, $security), and all those good things. I pray, also, for our leadership (all branches) in this blessed land. (Amen.)
Sorry for my brevity, I gotta scoot!
Love, LL
FIVE: Final note from her:
Sometimes brief is good - that was well said.
Lather. Rinse. Spin.
I think my strategy from this point forward is likely to be... I’ll just switch back to moviespeak. Songs work too. Makes me feel better at least.
Lyrics link http://www.lyricsfreak.com/...
Final. My "Feel Good spin" on this... it’s something I learned during/after the Primary, and the battle with HRC in particular. This is an opportunity for us to deploy the jujitsu. We must consider, imagine, project The Outcome & Aftermath, January 20th, 2009, and act as if we know in our hearts that it will be not only our reality, but theirs as well. Whether they like it or not.
Let’s do (now) what we can to ensure that they will like it.
Let’s be the ambassadors of this Administration.
Let’s be the change we have been waiting for.
Let’s right this ship. Respect. Trust. Dignity.
lyrics link is http://www.lyricsondemand.com/...
Hope.