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View Diary: Guns in our schools (104 comments)

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  •  Freedoms? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, Not A Bot

    The right our children enjoy is be educated.  The right the rest of us enjoy is to have a educated cohort of young adults that will share basic cultural values, like working and not using social assistance when they don't need it.

    Many school districts do have a trained police force.  Many schools do have an officer in the school.  The officer should be there only to protect against extreme threats.  However, as we have a tendency to not like people who appear to not do work, there has been cases where the officer has used force in situations where force may have not been appropriate.  So this is a dilemma that must be resolved t the local level.

    There are many points of egress and ingress in a typical school, so metal detectors and other point security protocols are not effective, except at the lower levels where they can keep the odd kid from sneaking a weapon in.

    I did not go to what many considered safe schools, but I do feel my right to a good education was never infringed.  And there were stabbings and other things at the schools I went to.  I do not see how having a police officer in the school necessarily infringes on the right to be educated.  It may help.  An example may be an abused child who might only trust an officer he or she sees every day.  Not that I am saying an officer in school is a good solution, just that it carefully implemented it may be a net benefit.

    As an previous post suggested, we are really wasting time thinking of extraneous issues in education.  Like morning prayer.  The issue is not if the kids feel free.  School is all about limiting freedom.  Freedom to eat candy all day, freedom to listen to you ipod, freedom to make out in the hall or go off campus and have sex.  It is a controlled environment, and i would suggest that most parents would want this.

    •  Teachers as instructors, social workers, parent (5+ / 0-)

      substitutes, custodial staff, computer technicians, curriculam specalists, artists and classroom designers is really a full time job.  Adding security patrol on top of this is absurb.  A good security guard must be aware  of the total environment, which takes the teacher out of the classroom and diverts her attention from all the other things society thinks a teacher should be doing.

      •  Being a copilot and pilot is demanding (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        drmah

        but we still gave them them means to defend themselves and their charges.

        The idea that if an armed intruder comes into a school then the teachers need to focus on continuing with the lessons and curriculum is not serious.

        And it does not have to be teachers.   It could be admin staff, janitor, cafeteria cook.   Out of 200 staff at a school it should be possible to find two or three volunteers who will take several days training and pass the tests in exchange for extra pay.

        While I think the identity of the guards needs to be hidden from everyone but the principal and a few others, I think that fact the teachers are guardians would reflect well on the profession as a whole.

        •  The idea of being forced to carry a gun and being (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mungley, Red Bean

          evaluated as a teacher on the basis of my shooting range score scares me spitless.  If you don't think this will be the final result you are naive.  The right=wing nuts are setting school agendas and teacher evaluations now.  Adding "carrying" to the job requirements isn't even a slight stretch.

          •  I , of course, would be utterly opposed to forcing (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            happymisanthropy

            any teacher -- or any other citizen -- to carry a gun.
            I think most Americans would agree.

            (The only case I know of that occurring in the past is in the military draft in times of major war.  And even then there were exemptions for religious objectors.)

            It would also be stupid -- there is no value in coercing someone into being a guard -- they will merely run when faced with the threat.   Rightfully so.

            Any volunteer should be accepted only if they are willing to fight for the kids in the unlikely event a threat ever arose.  Obviously, such volunteers should be compensated for accepting that duty.   Even so, I have no way of knowing if any teachers --or other employees -- would volunteer at some schools.

            •  but putting down teachers who don't want to carry (0+ / 0-)

              WILL happen.  That's how the right-wing gun nuts get their agenda pushed through. Making money the bottom line is dirty pool.

              •  srsly? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                drmah

                there are plenty of good arguments against the suggestion, but this one is ridiculous.

                Look up "concealed" in a dictionary.

                "The Taibbi article is a defense of status quo" -- citizen k

                by happymisanthropy on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 02:18:39 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You, obviouly, can't comprehend pressure teachers (0+ / 0-)

                  are already under.  Then to introduce gun requirements ion them is absurb. I know 100s of teachers with hair=trigger tempers who should never be near a weapon of any kind, and I also know 100s of excellent teachers who would be absolutely terrified to carry a weapon.  Making this a job evaluation issuw is even more absurb.

                  •  and who would do that? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    drmah
                    You, obviouly, can't comprehend pressure teachers (0+ / 0-)
                    are already under.
                    I only substitute taught three classes this morning, I'm obviously unqualified to talk about the subject.
                    Making this a job evaluation issuw is even more absurb.
                    "Concealed" means nobody can be sure whether you're armed or not.  If licenses are too easy to get, get one and let your boss think you're carrying.  If they aren't too easy to get, stop complaining about how easy they are.

                    "The Taibbi article is a defense of status quo" -- citizen k

                    by happymisanthropy on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 03:08:24 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Your silly ideas are unworkable in most school (0+ / 0-)

          environments.
          Firstly, I don't take your proposals seriously I think you are just plugging for the NRA, but if you are serious, you need to learn more about schools and buildings.

          Secondly, the number of dead kids and teachers  before your imaginary armed hero gets to the murderer can be astronomical.

          It's fun to pretend that you ideas would work, but they are based entirely on fantasy.

          Take back the House in 2014!!!!!!!!!!!! (50 state strategy needed)

          by mungley on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 12:45:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am not a member of the NRA and I have (0+ / 0-)

            no relationship with them.   I think it is silly to say you need to have firearms to fight off a dictator some time in the distant future -- and then do nothing when Dick Cheney destroys half of the Bill of Rights.

          •  You need more than guns (0+ / 0-)

            School guardians need body armor -- and surveillance systems that let a monitor in the principal's office identify the location of an armed intruder and broadcast that to the first responders in code over the intercom.   I think a 30 second to 1 minute response time will save more children than the 15-20 minute one we have now.

            Federal Protective specialists need to examine the problem to work out the best tactics, protective measures,etc.  

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